America is a country founded on the promise of equality. It no doubt, was a difficult and risky task for the founding fathers to write those simple words, “all men are created equal,” into the Declaration of Independence. But what has proven even harder, is living that ideology out in real and tangible ways. Since its birth, our country has been in a constant struggle after equality. First fighting to be free from the oppression of the crown, only to in turn become the oppressor rather than the liberator. This though did not stop the American people from fighting on behalf of the oppressed, and social movements came along demanding equality for both slaves and women (how well this was actually achieved is debatable, but another topic entirely).
Enough with the history lesson though, let’s get on to how this involves us today. Although we still struggle with obtaining impartiality for those freed in the past, there is a new cry for equality going out on behalf of our gay brothers and sisters. This cry no doubt will be an important issue in the impending election.
Barack Obama like all other candidates has spoken out on where he stands on the issue of homosexual equality. He made it clear in a speech posted on atlantic.com that “it’s wrong to have millions of Americans living as second-class citizens in this nation.” For Obama, “equality is a moral imperative”, and as president he plans to urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality in their laws.
Obama however, is not just some left wing politician, he actually is a professing evangelical Christian. He himself is willing to say that he has “a deep faith.” I don’t think it is any stretch of the imagination to assume that his deep faith perspective drives his actions towards a more equal America. I personally am not sure where I stand on the issue of voting in the upcoming election. Honestly haven’t done enough research on anyone to get behind them… and to be honest I have lost almost all faith in the system. So by no means am I advocating support in any one candidate. But if equality is the kind of change that Obama wants to bring about, it seems like something I could support.
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I have a question. If same sex marriage is legalized, will churches be forced to let the couples get married in their facilities? I know many churches that will deny a couple to get married in their church for many reasons, some included the pastor not thinking that the relationship is a healthy one to be in, others involving not being apart of the right denomination. So if same sex marriage is legalized, will churches have the possibility of being brought to court if they do not allow people of the same sex to get married in their church? Could there be an attack on the church legally that leads to the destruction of many churches that are smaller and cannot afford such an attack? i am not saying at all that i do not think same sex marriages should be allowed. i just wanted your feedback on that question. it has been bothering me for a bit. Thanks!
Hey, that is a great question. And to be honest, I don’t know the answer. I would think that freedom of religion would allow churches to continue to decided who they will marry and who they will not marry. If real equality is reached I don’t see how a homosexual couple would be any different from a heterosexual couple in law (and hopefully people’s thoughts). Of course this is an oversimplified answer to a very complex question.
Also though, another thing to remember is that there is also the option of civil unions which seems to be what Obama is advocating for. This would allow homosexual couples the same rights and marriage, but without the religious aspect of it.
This although is still tricky as there are many homosexual Christians. And… yeah I don’t know. The issues surrounding gay marriage are huge, and I think we are just starting to skim the surface of the legal and social affects. Another questions is what will the outcome be of kids that grow up with two dad’s or two mom’s? Will that even be an issue? I don’t know.
The issues surrounding every major social change are huge. And, I don’t know what I think about it yet, but I know that I don’t believe in shying away from injustice just because the solution is both unclear and uncomfortable.
Nicole asked me to chime in, so as a homo I’m doing so. As well as a Christian I’m doing so. Actually the Christian part really does supersede the homo part.
For legality that is something to be worked out in the laws, at the same time, we have gay marriage in Canada, as do tons of other countries that haven’t actually fallen apart yet. (Actually Europe has gay marriage all over the place and they’re not having the same troubles as the states right now.) But in most countries churches are still allowed to say what they do and don’t want to do. I’m currently pastoring a Church and I don’t have to marry anyone, partially because I’m actually at this point not even licensed to do it, gotta get around to that.
Churches are not ever forced to marry anyone, any Church that didn’t want to perform a marriage ceremony for a couple would simply have to tell the couple, sorry what you’re asking of us is not something that is part of our beliefs. Now, if the pastor says “No you dirty faggot, get the hell out of my office you’re gonna burn in hell.” That might actually present some other problems, but even then.
The thing that you have to keep in mind is, most gay people don’t actually go and make an effort to find someone to persecute them, we get that enough without trying to. So most of us unless we’re part of a faith community already are not going to ask that group to marry us. Now the only real concern would then be if a couple wants a big Church wedding, thing is a lot of mainline denominations have already had large groups of gay affirming Churches crop up. So really if someone wants to get married in a big lutheran church, all they need to do is google for an affirming lutheran Church in their area and boom they’re good to go.
Frankly most gay people who would have wanted Church weddings have been pushed out of the Church because apparently Jesus can’t stand the way that we have sex (makes me wonder if evangelicals think that he really loves peering in to the bedrooms of straight couples, personally I don’t think sex bothers God as much as we pretend.) so most of us wouldn’t even want a Church wedding anyway.
I should also mention there’s no reason for Churches not to be performing gay marriages. The Bible clearly doesn’t say a thing about gays since the idea of being gay is foreign to the biblical text, I mean if you read the original greek and hebrew, do some research, and don’t rely on bias sources who are often politically motived, and then develop a clear theology of sin based on Jesus… it’s entirely plain as day that the Bible doesn’t say a thing about gay people. I really don’t see why so many people want to be such lousy exegetes.
This is a good example of a “little leaven”. Because now we have allowed Homosexuality to creep in under the guise of equality. And for these people who say this is not biblical (i.e. David Malcolm) clearly they forgot to read Roman’s.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Romans 1:26-32 NIV
It’s clear, no major exegesis needed. Of course these beliefs are as well attatched to the “New Age” emergent church. I am all for reformation of the dry conservative church, but not at the sacrifice of Biblical Text and Jesus!
God is starting a justice movement for the homosexual community. This movement will not be stopped by politicians, protesters, the church, or homosexuals, because this movement is backed by all of heaven. The Lord of hosts, the King of glory is the beginning and end of this justice movement. It is not dependent on any person’s strength or arguments, but the zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish it (Isaiah 9:7). God’s arm is not too short to save, and it will be revealed.
But this justice movement has nothing to do with an equal rights amendment or same-sex marriage. This justice movement is rooted in the shed blood of Jesus and will accomplish mass deliverance and healing for a group of people long held in bondage. Just as Moses delivered the Israelites from Pharaoh and the Egyptians, once again, God WILL ride forth and deliver an entire people from the bondage of homosexuality. The Song of Moses (Exodus 15) will once again be sung.
“I will sing to the LORD, for he has triumphed gloriously; the horse and his rider he has thrown into the sea. The LORD is my strength and my song, and he has become my salvation; this my God, and I will praise him, my father’s God, and I will exalt him. The LORD is a man of war; the LORD is his name.” Exodus 15:1-3 (I recommend reading all the way to verse 21)
God’s war is not against those living in the homosexual lifestyle. He loves those men and women to the point of pouring out his life. God looks at each and everyone of them and sees sons and daughters, he sees mighty warriors and worshippers, he sees extravagant lovers and a holy priesthood. God is fighting for the freedom of these sons and daughters. “For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.” Ephesians 6:12
Without a doubt I know that God did not create homosexuality. Homosexuality is a demonic spirit that roams the earth seeking to devour sons and daughters of God. It is a relentlessly pursuing spirit. I live in San Francisco at a house of prayer. I spend at least a couple hours every week in the Castro, which is called the gay Mecca of the world. If you spend any amount of time in the Castro, you will see that the homosexual spirit is not based in love. It is rooted in pornography, lust, perversion, and woundedness. I am not saying that this is who homosexuals are. I am speaking about the demonic spirit and principality.
The men that I know and meet in the Castro are some of the sweetest, loving men that I know. I love them all so much. I would literally give my life to see true justice given to them. That they would know the one man who loves them more than all others, who will never disappoint them or leave them, and who died so that they could be free.
As a Christian, I have full confidence in the work that Jesus did on the cross. His blood is enough to deliver an entire generation from this spirit. My friend Adam was formerly one of the leaders in the Castro. He felt like he was gay from a very young age and ran away at the age of 18 to San Francisco. For years he lived here in the Castro, but now he goes out every week to share his testimony of redemption.”And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death.” Revelation 12:11. He is no longer living in the homosexual lifestyle, he was completely delivered. He always says, “The blood is enough! The blood is enough!” As a church have we lost confidence in what Jesus did on the cross? Do we not believe God is powerful enough to even redeem those living in the lifestyle of homosexuality?
Because at some point we have to make a choice. The Bible clearly says homosexuality is wrong. So we either believe the Bible or not. It’s time to make a choice. If we decide to believe that what God says is true, then we cannot believe that God created people to be homosexuals. If we believe that, then can we believe God is mighty enough to save his people? I’m here saying yes.
It may look like the Christian thing to do, to stand with an oppressed group of people and fight for their equality. But Jesus didn’t just hang out with sinners because it was the nice thing to do. He didn’t see the prostitute and try and make prostitution legal so that she wouldn’t be punished for it. He forgave her, but then told her to go and sin no more. He spent his time with sinners because the sick need a doctor. Saying they are sick means there is something wrong and they need to be healed. He knew he would be crushed for their sin. God literally HATES sin (not the sinner), it says in Isaiah 53:10 (NASB) that it PLEASED the Lord to crush him (Jesus). God found pleasure in crushing his only Son because that is how much he hates sin, and that is how much he wants us to be united with him.
Like I said in the beginning, there is a justice movement coming for the homosexual community. And the blood of Jesus will once again be proven to be enough. The Lord is a man of war and he will fight for the freedom of his children. And if we truly believe the Word of God and love homosexuals, then we will fight for their freedom too.
Sarah, I really appreciate your perspective. It gives a whole different angle to the sometimes foolish debate that we have. Its interesting to think about homosexuality itself being the oppressor, not just the people who are condemning homosexuals. There’s so many complexities to this. I’m not sure I agree that the Bible is clear on the issue, but I do agree that God will bring justice….whether or not we know what that looks like. We have to admit our own weakness and realize that there will be some things in life we can’t just figure out. Part of me hopes that I never settle for one side of this issue, but constantly try to learn about it and be open to God’s leading.